Welcome to 104th Phoenix
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing topics, give reputation to other members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Planning

15 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Ok, like the last event I am letting this consume me and I have some ideas regarding ordinance, ingress and egress. (Strikers) 

The only question I have is timing. A) there is very little terrain masking. 2) when the first unit pops everyone will know where the strikers are. D) I'm planning for very little time on station. If everything works out, I feel I can get 6 units in under 2 min. of exposure. ( Pop up, release ordinance, RTB)  @ 700 kph, from take off to touch down i think it's like 45 - 60 minutes. and this is just to the eastern most group.

I'm not a fighter pilot (yet) so I say this as only a suggestion. Have everyone engage the ECM and have it on at all times. I understand that it is not a good defense, but could you imagine what the screen would look like having 30+ jammers going? They could be blinded as well as reduce the effectiveness of their fake AWACS.

We could use to designate a battle commander. I know we all have excellent idea's and strategies. They should all be listed here. But maybe we need someone to make the ultimate decision on which direction to take and have their word as the final say. I do not want to let the idea of us outnumbering them to get me comfortable. The 16 Aggressors will probably be invited.

blacknight3022 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

So I watched last years event. Nice job Ocelot! Pardon me for not remembering names but that M2K that drew first blood in the AO did a fantastic job. It's my opinion that he got greedy. I think we will not be so lucky to be able to strike early. Another thing I noticed was that right around the 70 min. mark is when the strikers approached the AO. Very well timed. I think we may not be so lucky there either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I was thinking a fighter sweep hey "diddle diddle right up the middle" to pave the way for the strikers early may catch them by surprise.  If we can get our entire force airborne and orbiting Nellis, then launch a section (2) of fighters every 30 seconds to bulls, we'll overwhelm their ability to target the strikers.  Attach a section of fighters to close escort on the strikers and launch the strikers at 2 minutes into the waves, I think they'll have a tough time dealing with all of the fighters and targeting the strikers.

 

By launching a section every 30 seconds, it allows them to be separated from the nearest section by just a handful of miles so they can extend to the saftey of engaged fighters easily. I like your ECM idea, as it will make it even more difficult to ID the strikers.

 

Just my two cents.

 

-Ritt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I have all the ground units positions, will place a mark over each group at the mission start with the coordinates for the A-10C guys, and to visually find them in F10 map

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Nice! I've been practicing and I can find all groups when approaching from the SSE. I'll practice going further W and come in from the S to find all groups.

I really like that plan Blacknight. I have a suggestion tho... the first groups going in should be a 4 ship. 2 high and 2 low. The low flight should focus on the ground incase of some M2K or MiG-29 ninjas.

I have limited exp. in these events, so I think what we plan is a great way to start... then after that we react to the situation. F.Y.I. I can remove them Shikas in under 2 min. 

RuSh likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

1. SF_Ocelot - F-15C
2. Croncat - SU27
3. SF_Bushmanni - F-15C
4. Coxy_99 - F-15C
5. SF_Farrago - F-15C
6. Fenrir - Mig-29S
7. SF_Kapsu - F-15C
8. Plaiskool - F-15C
9. Fixen - F-15C
10. TurboRUSH - F-15C
11. Sleeper.M - F-15C
12. RVE_Flame - F-15C
13. RVE_Tito - F-15C
14. RVE_MicroVAX - M2000
15. RVE_Chico - SU27
16. Veritech - M2000
17. HUNAF_knix - F-15C
18. HUNAF_Arclight - F-15C
19. HUNAF_Kevinhun - F-15C
20. HUNAF_Bonomi - F-15C
21. Mblackham - A-10C
22. 
Black knights Squadron_Viper - F-15C
23. Jester - F-15C
24. Martini - M2000
25. Tello - SU27
26. Proteuswave - M2000
27. c@sper - F-15C
28. 
EVC57_Iberian - Mig 29S
29. EVC57_Thunder - Su 27
30. EVC57_Ghost - F-15C
31. EVC57_Leo - A10C
32. Ritt - F-15C

33. =GR=Trelopony - Mirage 2000
34. =GR=MadDog - Mirage 2000
35. =GR=Spanker - Su27
36. =GR=Aeolus - Mirage 2000 
37. =EDP 71st= RuSh - SU25T
38. M@verick - A-10C
39. 159th_Scooter - SU25T

2x25T     1st strike

3xA10C  On station + armour

7 x M2000  Multirole

5 x SU27   Low IR

2 x Mig 29s  NINJA

20 x F15 5 flights of 4 CAP BVR

Nice! I've been practicing and I can find all groups when approaching from the SSE. I'll practice going further W and come in from the S to find all groups.

I really like that plan Blacknight. I have a suggestion tho... the first groups going in should be a 4 ship. 2 high and 2 low. The low flight should focus on the ground incase of some M2K or MiG-29 ninjas.

I have limited exp. in these events, so I think what we plan is a great way to start... then after that we react to the situation. F.Y.I. I can remove them Shikas in under 2 min. 

Fancy setting up a practice session for the strikers on Saturday?

blacknight3022 and RuSh like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Good idea Scooter. A 4 ship lead for the fighter sweep is probably a better idea.  Best to make that all F-15's.  Once the furball starts, the shorter ranged M2K's and SU's/MiG's should be able to press enemy fighters which are already defending/reentering combat.  Goal should be to buy the strikers 5 minutes on station over the targets in which the enemy aircraft are fully committed to fighting our fighter sweep.

RuSh likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

The good thing of the SU25T is they can get the OA in about 10 minutes! killing at least three targets in one pass with 2xKh-29T and one (or two) Kh-25ML or Vikhr, at the same time can contribute with their ECMs ON to the overall noise behind the CAP, until they reach the OA.

Edited by RuSh
added

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Here's a tip for the A-10C guys just in case they have missed the technique used by A-10s in previous Red Flag. You can increase your ingress speed quite a bit by climbing high while waiting at IP so you can then get your speed up by slightly diving while ingressing. At previous Red Flag the A-10s managed about 350 KTS ground speed during the ingrees by diving from 20k to 10k during the ingress which is quite fast for A-10. Obviously A-10 will not have time to climb to 20k for the first wave and they should target the second wave for their attack with this technique. It will mean lots of time climbing and loitering but will ensure A-10s get to the target in time.

If the diving technique is out of question then the next best alternative is to climb to suitable altitude. If you climb too high you will lose time while climbing and if you climg too low you will lose time because of slower top speed. If I remember correctly while I last time checked the flight manual a nice optimum is 10k feet as going higher than that will not increse your top speed much but will take increasingly more time to climb to. 10k feet level flight will give you about 300KTS ground speed. For more accurate information it's best to check the flight manual as my memory might be slightly off but the basic principle should be valid as I came up with it by looking through the A-10 performance charts.

RuSh likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Yea 10 - 15 k is our usual range.  I was thinking of loading 6 mavs per run with no GBUs to also increase top speed and loiter time.  2 A10Cs can take out a target zone each in a few minutes with 6 mavs.

Edited by mblackham
RuSh likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

lel, here is the Mirage ;D 

 

I didnt get greedy at all, I had timeplans for different takeoff scenarios, expecting the headon start of the Aggressors to be briefed, which it wasnt. 

So I trusted my timeplans. kinda sad part is, event organizers actually wanted to brief the early start by agressors, but it got overrun due to the server issues. 

 

I even checked after the event, I was even 15 seconds ahead of MY timeplan with 90 seconds safety margin, problem kinda was, that the Aggressors took off roughly 100 seconds before me. Thats why the plan failed.

 

But as seen in the briefing, same thing this time. The aggressors will take off first and tell us when we can take off. So there is no way this time to get there first. 

 

Also no cluster munitions _at all_ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

We get to operate in an agressor no fly zone, so we get to set the time tables.  That is an advantage we get.  The aggressors get to tell us when we're allowed to take off, but we get to decide when to cross into no man's land.  Therefore, we won't ever have the opportunity to surprise the aggressors with speed, but we can take all the time we want to set up our first wave.

 

I really think that a fighter sweep down the middle with ECM on will make life difficult for the aggressors and make intercepting the strikers immensely difficult.

mblackham likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I meant no ill will microvax. Was it Admiral Arley Burke that broke the line and drew first blood? He died in that battle as well. Not before someone spotted him giving orders thru the 1MC on the fantail due to the wheel house being ripped apart. 

I can do a Sat event. Unfortunately I will not be able to sit down until 0100z. (5pm Pacific) What I've been doing is keeping below 50m Rad. Alt. to just before Creech, veer N then pop up aprox 4-5km before the ridgeline. There is a creek that runs thru a valley and right to the E. group. DO NOT TAKE THAT VALLEY. Take the valley just E of that creek. It's narrower and has a taller crest to the W. Popping up from there gives you 3 groups within 20 degrees of yer nose. I feel the far W groups are a stretch for first strike. A) you have to go past Creech and that valley has only 2000ft rise between the two HP's. Not to mention when the Aggressors take off you're in their radar. 2) It's a LONG valley these units are in. Once the first ground unit is done for, it smokes and sends a flag to their fighters. They will know where you were and will know where you go. Approaching from the E at least gives us more than one escape route should someone break our line. I've also practiced with 29T's and ML's. Release 2 29's and you can get an ML off  before the first 29 strikes. On that note, the shilka should be first. Otherwise we're juking and lining up a laser shot. I feel like im preaching to the choir, please forgive me. What I've been doing is taking out the shilka at each group. I have to RTB immediately but thats ok. If you don't mind I wanna go rouge after that. Im here for the team first tho...just to be clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Ahh no ill will taken, I just understand very well, that it looked greedy, while in fact it was just the pure opposite. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Flying low to evade aggressors is pointless as their radars will see you anyway as there are no large enough mountains to hide behind. All that flying low does is slow you down, increase fuel consumption and increase the possibility that CAP has to RTB before you are finished with the strike. Trust the CAP to do their job and aim to do the strike as quickly and efficiently as possible.

RuSh, blacknight3022 and mblackham like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0